This is an honest question, not aimed at any one team or organization. What do most people think when it comes to certain competitions favoring certain teams. I know that there are are a lot of different factiors involved such as scoring systems, and judging being subjective, and so forth. Most of the time it evens out. I'm a strong believer that it usually is the best team that wins, but I've seen some results lately that have me curious. Do you feel this is true or not?
There are times that it certainly apears that way. The small local competitions seem to favor certain teams. It all depended on where the judges are from. If you are at a local competitoin you my want to ask if the judges are from the local area or not. If they are you bet certain gyms are favored. The judges are often given a scope on with to judge. They are told what the emphasis is for that competition. Subjective judging? Is there such a thing? The cheer world is very small and the judging pool is even smaller. If you want a fair shake attend the competitions that bring out of state judges. Then I think you will get an honest opinion.
I know it sounds like sour grapes sometimes when you hear WE WHERE ROBBED. But I do sometimes wonder what the heck they were thinking when they annouce some of the results. I always tell my daughter that next time if they work hard it will be thier turn. Then we go to some comps and I just don't get the placements. We went to one recently that one of the teams performed perfectly, but a team with fallen stunts and quite a few touch downs still placed ahead of the team with no errors. I don't always understand how the judging can be so different from one comp to the next. I think some favor clean routines, while others looked more at difficulty. Who knows. I do think they should all go on the same scoring system.
I have to say this weekend when we went to gssa I read the judges bios and i saw a name i recognized but she is now married. Under every other judges listings they had where they cheered etc. but under hers it just staed how long she was in the industry and generic information.
Of course i sat there in disgust at forst and thought how unfair and why in the hell would gssa think they can pull this one off. I debated about sayong something to anyone and who ever i could. Then i thought to myself i know this young lady she is very talented and smart and i have faith in her doing what is right and being fair. I honestly had to sit back and think about her character instead if oh my god my team is going against her former team that she cheered and coached.
And i believe she judged fairly. I really do one of the teams beat our team but the other one did not in another division. I think it dependson the person or persons who are judging. I know she is fair and kind and I always thought highly of her back then.
so why would i think differntly now because of a competition? I feel bad for even questioning her integrity to myself(because i never said one word to anyone else)
so honestly of course orginizations and people have favorites, unfortunalty that is how life is with everything. If something is so eveident thatits unfair then you speak up and voice your opionion to the hosting orginization. your money and talent is just as important but try to remember that most judges are fair and its only sometimes you experience unfair judging. and until they come up woth a way to make it not suggestive something will always seem unfair.
shoot and they are human you nver know what style they like, or music. it may all play a role in things
Obviously we all know who you are talking about. But I have to disagree. Past is the Past. It does not matter where someone has coached or cheered before. The best team will win, otherwise the sport of cheerleading would not hold itself up to the same standards. As it is already, it is an industry that is based off of personal opinion and not constant score keeping like most sports. Cheer organizations would not get away with the 2nd place team winning, if the judges did have a background like this. They would become non-existant because nobody would want to compete at them. Don't come on these boards and blame the judges for your team not winning. Scores are averaged so these things dont happend. That is also why some companies choose to throw the high's and the low's. My Opinon Only.
Woah... hold on don't get your drawers in a huff. You do not know who I'm referring too, or for that matter what competition. As a matter of fact the team I used as an example is not even one of our gyms teams. Its just one example that came to mind. It was just a question. I thought that was still allowed on this board. I'm not naming names, so you should not assume. It's a valid question and I thank the posters who responded in a polite way for your explanations. I was just curious how others felt.
I have to say this weekend when we went to gssa I read the judges bios and i saw a name i recognized but she is now married. Under every other judges listings they had where they cheered etc. but under hers it just staed how long she was in the industry and generic information.
Of course i sat there in disgust at forst and thought how unfair and why in the hell would gssa think they can pull this one off. I debated about sayong something to anyone and who ever i could. Then i thought to myself i know this young lady she is very talented and smart and i have faith in her doing what is right and being fair. I honestly had to sit back and think about her character instead if oh my god my team is going against her former team that she cheered and coached.
And i believe she judged fairly. I really do one of the teams beat our team but the other one did not in another division. I think it dependson the person or persons who are judging. I know she is fair and kind and I always thought highly of her back then.
so why would i think differntly now because of a competition? I feel bad for even questioning her integrity to myself(because i never said one word to anyone else)
so honestly of course orginizations and people have favorites, unfortunalty that is how life is with everything. If something is so eveident thatits unfair then you speak up and voice your opionion to the hosting orginization. your money and talent is just as important but try to remember that most judges are fair and its only sometimes you experience unfair judging. and until they come up woth a way to make it not suggestive something will always seem unfair.
shoot and they are human you nver know what style they like, or music. it may all play a role in things
You should, "feel bad for questioning her integrity." Instead of telling everyone at the competition how you felt, you announced it on these boards--does not appear that you actually feel bad for thinking those things after all. I know the person you are describing personally and I am offended that you would question her honesty and character.
I know it sounds like sour grapes sometimes when you hear WE WHERE ROBBED. But I do sometimes wonder what the heck they were thinking when they annouce some of the results. I always tell my daughter that next time if they work hard it will be thier turn. Then we go to some comps and I just don't get the placements. We went to one recently that one of the teams performed perfectly, but a team with fallen stunts and quite a few touch downs still placed ahead of the team with no errors. I don't always understand how the judging can be so different from one comp to the next. I think some favor clean routines, while others looked more at difficulty. Who knows. I do think they should all go on the same scoring system.
The thing is thought that no one performs a perfect routine or even close to one. Their is always mistakes from step out of tumbling, technique, execution, performance, difficulty, and much more. People tend to think that team A should win team B because Team B had more mistakes, but what if team B had more difficulty and their overall performance was better then team A, that could lead them to a first place. Don't think that because one team made some mistakes that the other team should automatically win.
I think as parents, coaches and cheerleaders within a certain program we are also a little bit biased. You may watch your child's routine and be so happy that all of them got their scorpions were up or you may be so excited that little Suzy threw her full for the first time because you know she has been working so hard on it. However the judges don't know that, they don't know what goes on behind the scenes. What they might see is flyers who have just barely enough flexibility to grab their toe on their scorps or they might see a full with crossed legs and bent knees. It's important that before you accuse the judges of being biased, for or against a team, you step back and make sure that you're not the one that is being unrealistic.
As a former cheerleader, coach, and now a judge I can honestly tell you that I have certain biases when it comes to judging. Everyone that cheered at some point is going to. I like the style that my teams had when I was cheering which is why I continued to coach there after I graduated high school. So yes I am more likely to score them higher than another team if they have a comparable skill level (this means that they are on a similar level, they do not have to be exactly the same). It is not because I like them more or because they are my former team, but because they continue to follow the philosophy that I think is best when it comes to choreography and style. However this is why there are multiple judges on a panel. Where I might prefer a very clean crisp routine another judge might prefer that there be as much difficulty as possible regardless of the execution. Together we would balance each other out. There will be days or competitions where all of the judges prefer a certain style and those days those teams will win whether you agree with it or not.
People will say that this is due to subjective judging and we need to change the score sheets etc.. While I agree it will help to standardize things for other reasons, it will not stop this. Gymnastics has one of the most objective scoring systems and yet biases still emerge. There will be one day where a gym does something slightly different stylistically than the others and their kids will score higher on a consistent basis throughout the meet. At the next competition, with a different judge, it will be another gym. Biases are a part or these types of activities. It sucks when your team is on the losing end of it, but most of you won't be complaining when it's the other way around.
None of this is directed at any certain poster or team, I am no longer involved in All Star cheerleading and have no affiliation with anyone in the industry nor have I seen any All Star teams yet this season.
I think as parents, coaches and cheerleaders within a certain program we are also a little bit biased. You may watch your child's routine and be so happy that all of them got their scorpions were up or you may be so excited that little Suzy threw her full for the first time because you know she has been working so hard on it. However the judges don't know that, they don't know what goes on behind the scenes. What they might see is flyers who have just barely enough flexibility to grab their toe on their scorps or they might see a full with crossed legs and bent knees. It's important that before you accuse the judges of being biased, for or against a team, you step back and make sure that you're not the one that is being unrealistic.
As a former cheerleader, coach, and now a judge I can honestly tell you that I have certain biases when it comes to judging. Everyone that cheered at some point is going to. I like the style that my teams had when I was cheering which is why I continued to coach there after I graduated high school. So yes I am more likely to score them higher than another team if they have a comparable skill level (this means that they are on a similar level, they do not have to be exactly the same). It is not because I like them more or because they are my former team, but because they continue to follow the philosophy that I think is best when it comes to choreography and style. However this is why there are multiple judges on a panel. Where I might prefer a very clean crisp routine another judge might prefer that there be as much difficulty as possible regardless of the execution. Together we would balance each other out. There will be days or competitions where all of the judges prefer a certain style and those days those teams will win whether you agree with it or not.
People will say that this is due to subjective judging and we need to change the score sheets etc.. While I agree it will help to standardize things for other reasons, it will not stop this. Gymnastics has one of the most objective scoring systems and yet biases still emerge. There will be one day where a gym does something slightly different stylistically than the others and their kids will score higher on a consistent basis throughout the meet. At the next competition, with a different judge, it will be another gym. Biases are a part or these types of activities. It sucks when your team is on the losing end of it, but most of you won't be complaining when it's the other way around.
None of this is directed at any certain poster or team, I am no longer involved in All Star cheerleading and have no affiliation with anyone in the industry nor have I seen any All Star teams yet this season.
I was happy with the placements at GSSA this past Saturday because the judges for the most part were from out-of-town (fresh eyes) and they seemed to give more points for difficulty than other competitions we have attended. Our routine was not the cleanest, but the things that worked had more difficulty than a simple and clean routine. No falls will not always beat a team that has falls, and that's the way it should be in my opinion. You have to look at the entire routine and reward and deduct appropriately, and I felt GSSA did that fairly.
I have to say this weekend when we went to gssa I read the judges bios and i saw a name i recognized but she is now married. Under every other judges listings they had where they cheered etc. but under hers it just staed how long she was in the industry and generic information.
Of course i sat there in disgust at forst and thought how unfair and why in the hell would gssa think they can pull this one off. I debated about sayong something to anyone and who ever i could. Then i thought to myself i know this young lady she is very talented and smart and i have faith in her doing what is right and being fair. I honestly had to sit back and think about her character instead if oh my god my team is going against her former team that she cheered and coached.
And i believe she judged fairly. I really do one of the teams beat our team but the other one did not in another division. I think it dependson the person or persons who are judging. I know she is fair and kind and I always thought highly of her back then.
so why would i think differntly now because of a competition? I feel bad for even questioning her integrity to myself(because i never said one word to anyone else)
so honestly of course orginizations and people have favorites, unfortunalty that is how life is with everything. If something is so eveident thatits unfair then you speak up and voice your opionion to the hosting orginization. your money and talent is just as important but try to remember that most judges are fair and its only sometimes you experience unfair judging. and until they come up woth a way to make it not suggestive something will always seem unfair.
shoot and they are human you nver know what style they like, or music. it may all play a role in things
You should, "feel bad for questioning her integrity." Instead of telling everyone at the competition how you felt, you announced it on these boards--does not appear that you actually feel bad for thinking those things after all. I know the person you are describing personally and I am offended that you would question her honesty and character.
why should this person feel bad they never said any names and i believe they were giving an example you may know who the person is but i dont! I thinkits good that this person was smart enough to not say anything at the competitiion and that this person realized that those type of fellings are unecessary. i think it is honrablr that they came on here and expreesed an honest opinion and admitted to being wrong for feeling that way.
It made me think that you know its a small world and we cant think everyone is out to cheat us or be unfair. I believe the poster said this perosn is a wonderful person with integrity.
names were never mentioned and there are quite a few of us who don't know everyone in the industry
original poster dont feel bad i think you did the right thing by showing others that we all can get paranoid for no reasin and that even though someone may be affiliated with another gym or orginization they can still be fair and credible judges
I have to say this weekend when we went to gssa I read the judges bios and i saw a name i recognized but she is now married. Under every other judges listings they had where they cheered etc. but under hers it just staed how long she was in the industry and generic information.
Of course i sat there in disgust at forst and thought how unfair and why in the hell would gssa think they can pull this one off. I debated about sayong something to anyone and who ever i could. Then i thought to myself i know this young lady she is very talented and smart and i have faith in her doing what is right and being fair. I honestly had to sit back and think about her character instead if oh my god my team is going against her former team that she cheered and coached.
And i believe she judged fairly. I really do one of the teams beat our team but the other one did not in another division. I think it dependson the person or persons who are judging. I know she is fair and kind and I always thought highly of her back then.
so why would i think differntly now because of a competition? I feel bad for even questioning her integrity to myself(because i never said one word to anyone else)
so honestly of course orginizations and people have favorites, unfortunalty that is how life is with everything. If something is so eveident thatits unfair then you speak up and voice your opionion to the hosting orginization. your money and talent is just as important but try to remember that most judges are fair and its only sometimes you experience unfair judging. and until they come up woth a way to make it not suggestive something will always seem unfair.
shoot and they are human you nver know what style they like, or music. it may all play a role in things
You should, "feel bad for questioning her integrity." Instead of telling everyone at the competition how you felt, you announced it on these boards--does not appear that you actually feel bad for thinking those things after all. I know the person you are describing personally and I am offended that you would question her honesty and character.
I so didn't get that the person who wrote this post was trying to do anything bad but was thinking through on the board what they went through this weekend. Likewise, who she was talking about?? Who knows? I think you are reading too much into it. At every competition, there could be someone there who is/was a coach/cheerleading judging and if you know them, it would be human nature to wonder if they will be biased. Sounds like whoever this was rose above past relationships and judged fairly. Is that such a bad thing to say about a person? Sounds like a commendation to me.
Thank you all for the kind words. When I wrote that I knew one of the judges and where she was from, I was simply trying to use my experience from that competition that it is really a small world in competitve cheer and I do believe that even though we run into people we know and they are judging. Doesn't mean that they can not be fair. Like I saidthat young lady is such a nice, sweet person and very talented when both in the cheer world and outside of the cheer world. Yes "I" was questioning if it would be fair that day, but never once did I say to anyone else who it was or how I was feeling. And Like I stated I had to remember that this young lady has so much integrity and I should never question it. I didn't come on here to expose anything negative, I wanted to use what I knew I was going through that day as an example of how we can "all" get paranoid for no reason sometimes, but the judges really do know what they are doing!
so let me say to the person who knows who I am talking about, that she is a wonderful person and I believe that the juding was completely fair at this competition.
I may have question her intergity in my mind for a minute out of being competitive and worried, but never compromised this ladies integrity by stating my worries to anyone else. I feel like the competition is over and a thread was started and i felt it was a perfect example to show how we can get.
Very Very Well said, I think when people know something would not be right (if it wasn't something they did or someone) they know they automatically go on the defensive.
