squads competing at lower levels hmmmmm

Date: Fri Oct 19 9:49 AM, 2007

squads competing at lower levels hmmmmm

Date: Fri Oct 19 9:57 AM, 2007

Why do coaches put together level 5 teams, and charge the parents level 5 money, knowing that their squad is really level 3/4. What's worse????

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:03 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Why do coaches put together level 5 teams, and charge the parents level 5 money, knowing that their squad is really level 3/4. What's worse????

very true i see both sides

CheerMama · Senior Member

Okay since this is such a hot topic, What do you think makes a true Level 5 team to be truly competitive what skills should you have. Here is a quick list of what makes a truly competitive squad

2 man stunts with 3-5 body positions

Kick doubles out of stunts

Kick Kick singles or doubles out of stunts

4-5 tricks in a pyramid

Triple toe touch tucks

Front hurdler punch fronts or tucks

Pike front punch or tucks

Standing three to a full

Standing tuck

Roundoff back handspring Double

Combo Passes

At the very least 85% of your team should have the majority of these skills to be considered a true level 5 team. How many teams have this. In California there are very few, but this is the norm on the east coast. In Cali there is POWER, Cheerforce, Cali All Stars, American, Nor Cal Elite. I am not sure of others. But there is no harm competing at Level 5 even if you don't have all these skills it challenges you.

-- Edited by CheerMama at 11:13, 2007-10-19

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:14 AM, 2007

I don't think competing at level 5 without having all the skills is the problem... I think it is the folks who have the skills listed above but for some reason compete level 4

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:20 AM, 2007

I guess we will all see at the Power comp, if there is a huge difference between teams in the Senior 4 division. I wonder if Pyramids 4 will completly blow all the level 4 teams out of the water or will it be close?

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:24 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

hey does anyone else think its unfair for gyms to field their teams at lower level just so they can dominate competitions???? isnt being competitive mean competing against the best at your level? those of you going to power comp maybe you should read whats going on with one larger orginization on another thread i believe its under what are you excited for........

maybe if gyms stop competing agains these teams that are doing this it will stop

why do they think it is ok to compete at level 4 when their team is really level 5

How many out there can honestly say that they do not have members on thier squads that are at a higher level then some of thier other team members. Not many. You can only do the skill level allowed in that division, so what difference does it really make. So you have a level 2 team. They can do back hand springs. Some on that team may also have a back tucks, but they can't do that particular skill on a level 2 team. So where is this cheating. Because of the new rules about competing on more then one team some gyms have come up with a way to produce a level 5 team. It's not like this particular gym is the only one doing it. The same people who continue to rehash this subject need to take a look at thier own gyms. One in particular comes to mind. They had a level 3 team the first couple of competitions and then dropped them down to a level 2. The reasoning being that it was thier true level. Well at the begining of the year most of the squad had level 3 skills, standing tucks, etc. At the level 2 level they could only do backhand springs. But by dropping down a level they pretty much won every competition they participated in. Why aren't people complaining more about this type thing. At least this gym is being upfront about what they are doing.

CheerMama · Senior Member

I agree and the question is do AA members have these skills or are they truly a level 4 team

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:33 AM, 2007

I see what your saying and it does happen in all levels. However, there is a difference of having 4 out of 20 kids with above skills than 15 out of 18 with above skills. I know of a team that went level 4 last season for one comp. They had 3 standing tucks and 3 layouts (level 4) just to test out the water then dropped to level 3 for the rest of the season. There is no way that they would be considered a true level 4 team. 3 standing tucks and 3 layouts (above skills) does NOT make up a level 4 team. Now 15 out of 18 does.

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:34 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

hey does anyone else think its unfair for gyms to field their teams at lower level just so they can dominate competitions???? isnt being competitive mean competing against the best at your level? those of you going to power comp maybe you should read whats going on with one larger orginization on another thread i believe its under what are you excited for........

maybe if gyms stop competing agains these teams that are doing this it will stop

why do they think it is ok to compete at level 4 when their team is really level 5

How many out there can honestly say that they do not have members on thier squads that are at a higher level then some of thier other team members. Not many. You can only do the skill level allowed in that division, so what difference does it really make. So you have a level 2 team. They can do back hand springs. Some on that team may also have a back tucks, but they can't do that particular skill on a level 2 team. So where is this cheating. Because of the new rules about competing on more then one team some gyms have come up with a way to produce a level 5 team. It's not like this particular gym is the only one doing it. The same people who continue to rehash this subject need to take a look at thier own gyms. One in particular comes to mind. They had a level 3 team the first couple of competitions and then dropped them down to a level 2. The reasoning being that it was thier true level. Well at the begining of the year most of the squad had level 3 skills, standing tucks, etc. At the level 2 level they could only do backhand springs. But by dropping down a level they pretty much won every competition they participated in. Why aren't people complaining more about this type thing. At least this gym is being upfront about what they are doing.

This would be considered really sandbagging and thats a whole different topic!

Date: Fri Oct 19 10:48 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

hey does anyone else think its unfair for gyms to field their teams at lower level just so they can dominate competitions???? isnt being competitive mean competing against the best at your level? those of you going to power comp maybe you should read whats going on with one larger orginization on another thread i believe its under what are you excited for........

maybe if gyms stop competing agains these teams that are doing this it will stop

why do they think it is ok to compete at level 4 when their team is really level 5

How many out there can honestly say that they do not have members on thier squads that are at a higher level then some of thier other team members. Not many. You can only do the skill level allowed in that division, so what difference does it really make. So you have a level 2 team. They can do back hand springs. Some on that team may also have a back tucks, but they can't do that particular skill on a level 2 team. So where is this cheating. Because of the new rules about competing on more then one team some gyms have come up with a way to produce a level 5 team. It's not like this particular gym is the only one doing it. The same people who continue to rehash this subject need to take a look at thier own gyms. One in particular comes to mind. They had a level 3 team the first couple of competitions and then dropped them down to a level 2. The reasoning being that it was thier true level. Well at the begining of the year most of the squad had level 3 skills, standing tucks, etc. At the level 2 level they could only do backhand springs. But by dropping down a level they pretty much won every competition they participated in. Why aren't people complaining more about this type thing. At least this gym is being upfront about what they are doing.

This would be considered really sandbagging and thats a whole different topic!

Yeah I've seen this alot from certain gyms. This is where integrity comes in to play. You either have it or you don't.

Marlon · Veteran Member

I see what both sides are saying. As a coach of a team that has competed level 5 in the past, and are now going level 4, I can truely say that they definately have had their work cut out to go level 4. We have very few level 5 cheerleaders on our 36 member team. (Level 5 to me is to have all jumps into a tuck, over half the squad with round-off handspring fulls, double twist cradles from all stunts, kick double baskets and really strong work ethic and motivation) I understand people think that just because a team was 5 the year before, when they comepte 4 the next year it is so called "sand-bagging", but no one ever knows the truth about the teams. Return ratios, new cheerleaders talent levels, etc. Dont think because a team was 5 the year before that they are 5 the next. You will have to wait for the first comp to truely see. I feel, all teams should compete at a level where they know they will be on top of their game, not having to worry if its going to hit, or if so and so will throw their skill. Before you accuse squads of competing at lower levels, you might want to ask yourself why you are worried about it? I know my team is on top of their game, do you know if yours will be? I cant wait for the first competition!! Bring your A game!

Date: Fri Oct 19 11:19 AM, 2007

I remember talk of a team last year who competed at level 3 and everyone said they should be level 2 because they just didn't have the tumbling for level 3. So they dropped to level 2 and started to win. They did poorly as level 3 and it was obvious they were in the wrong division. Was that wrong? Sometimes it takes a couple/few competitions to get it right. Now were these athletes competing on a level 3 team and level 2? I don't think so. Completely different situation than what we're seeing with 15 out of 18 athletes competing at level 4 and also competing at level 5. It has to do with what you're capable of. Is this level 4 team capable of performing at level 5? We're all assuming yes, but realistically only they will know.

Date: Fri Oct 19 11:24 AM, 2007

A previous post prompted this, I couldn't resist. This isn't about any one gym because I think we've all dropped levels to win. It's a business after all...

There's no business like cheer business
Like no business I know
Everything we're doing's totally legal
It's what the USASF allows
There isn't anything so quite endearing
When you are hearing
Those "oooh's" and "wow's"

There's no business like cheer business
Some cheer levels below
Even if your level 5 competes at 4
What does it matter, the crowds will roar
In our sport the goal is for the highest score
Let's go out on that floor!

Date: Fri Oct 19 11:43 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

I remember talk of a team last year who competed at level 3 and everyone said they should be level 2 because they just didn't have the tumbling for level 3. So they dropped to level 2 and started to win. They did poorly as level 3 and it was obvious they were in the wrong division. Was that wrong? Sometimes it takes a couple/few competitions to get it right. Now were these athletes competing on a level 3 team and level 2? I don't think so. Completely different situation than what we're seeing with 15 out of 18 athletes competing at level 4 and also competing at level 5. It has to do with what you're capable of. Is this level 4 team capable of performing at level 5? We're all assuming yes, but realistically only they will know.

Yes sometimes it takes a couple competitions to get it right. But dropping down to a level that you clearly are above just to win is kind of a hollow victory. To work hard and constantly push yourself to improve and win thats a win to be proud of. I guess it's up to the gym and coaches to decide which is right for thier gym.

Date: Fri Oct 19 11:58 AM, 2007

I love when teams drop down at the national competitions.. nice.
I think that whatever level you qualify at the comp for is the level you should have to compete at.

UCFMom · Veteran Member

looks like our team is in the minority here. All our teams are going to be challenged this season. Even our little 4 year old...hehehehe.

The UCF coaches explained that all our teams should be held down if we were looking for full squad back handspring, back tucks. But our girls won't be growing in the other areas of cheerleading. We have girls that have been cheering at the level 2 for 4 years now. they probably will not be classified as a level 3 cheerleader for may more year. The coaches still want them to learn to base over their heads and move on in the stunting area.

Our girls will need to work really had this year but will gain so much more in the end. smile

Date: Sat Oct 20 8:42 AM, 2007

UCFMom wrote:

looks like our team is in the minority here. All our teams are going to be challenged this season. Even our little 4 year old...hehehehe.

The UCF coaches explained that all our teams should be held down if we were looking for full squad back handspring, back tucks. But our girls won't be growing in the other areas of cheerleading. We have girls that have been cheering at the level 2 for 4 years now. they probably will not be classified as a level 3 cheerleader for may more year. The coaches still want them to learn to base over their heads and move on in the stunting area.

Our girls will need to work really had this year but will gain so much more in the end.

ucf mom what does that mean?????does that mean you all are competing in higher levels you shouldnt be in

Date: Sat Oct 20 8:53 AM, 2007

dont agree with ucf mom that in the end it will make them better
teams should compete in levels that they will at least do well in the kids get sad when they are blown out of the water at competition at least give them a chance why set them up to fail from the start
i am happy my gym puts our squads right were they belong
thank you cg staff for looking out for our kids

that is silly reasoning

Date: Sat Oct 20 9:21 AM, 2007

I agree. Because in the end the kids are going to be sad that they keep losing and the parents don't want to keep paying or return next year if they keep losing. You will probably end of dropping back to your original level before nationals.